AH vs Store Front or both

Discussion in 'Trade' started by Zero, May 16, 2016.

  1. Ricey63

    Ricey63 New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    AH should be regional which means players should have to travel to areas where the resources they need are available.
    A player should be able to transport goods to any AH, meaning he could take timber to an AH in an area where timber is rare (Desert area?) and get better prices. This in theory sets up trade routes.
    All trade should be done through the AH. This means prices can be controlled and taxes collected at source.
    A player should be able to put an item on the AH that can only be bought by the player he names. Privately agreed trades between friends can still be done but prices are still controlled and taxes paid.
    Events could be organised lie 'Market Days'. Players can hire a market stall and sell any items for any price, so bargains can be had. Taxes could still be collected because each market stall will operate like a mini AH.
    All items should have a price range set by the AH, not the player. This prevents farming of certain items for huge profits. Prices can alter depending on availabiilty. example, Timber between 10 and 20 gold depending on availability. (I know this will be difficult to impliment but with some good coding and math knowledge, it should be do-able, it can also be adjusted up or down by the devs to fix any later problems)

    I personally dont want to see yet another game where everyone ends up with millions in the bank, where everyone has the l33t gear, and craft trades are dead.
     
    Regnans likes this.
  2. Svendrae

    Svendrae Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    8
    The problem is as always, no matter what rules a universe plays by (real or otherwise) there will never be a way to circumvent human greed.

    Regional AH would be neat but I don't know how big the average area of a region would/could/should be. That sort of thing can also sway the balance.

    Isn't putting something on the AH that is for only one specific person a bit silly? Just keep it as the Cash on Demand system and let it be. The thing about an auction is that everyone can see the auction and once an item is purchased the AH keeps a record of it's selling price. That whole, "You can look but you can't touch" idea is exactly the opposite of what an AH is for.

    If anything just make Cash on Demand deliveries subject to taxes.

    Market days seems interesting too, but if they are subjected to the same tax rate as any other day I can't imagine anyone would logically participate. Especially if they have to go out of their way to pay extra for an npc or a lot in the market square.

    You know, RuneScape had the same thing worked out with the Grand Exchange, if more people buy an item at the upper end of the money threshold then the average goes up, and so then does the maximum price limit of the threshold.

    Here though, I'd like to reiterate that there will never be a way to out-smart our own greed. RuneScape for example, has merchant clans that pick one item in the market and start to buy/sell at an ever increasing pay. They do this back and forth with each other until the price has gone up a considerable amount then they all get together and sell the item at it's lowest price (which by now is much higher than the old maximum price) to net a huge profit.

    Here is how it works:
    200 people get together and all decide to spam farm something that is relatively lucrative by nature and they farm the crap out of it or buy a bunch from the Exchange and hold onto it.
    Then, they all get together over the course of anywhere form 8 hours to 4 days hours and take turns buying and selling at the max price range for that item over and over again until the price hikes.
    Afterwards, they all sell at the same time. If the old price range was 100g-150g and they made it jump up over the course of time to 230-280g and then they all decide to sell it for less than threshold price at 215g or even the minimum of 230g then yeah... imagine doing that with a collective amount of over 100k of that item. 100k x 150g = ???? 100k x 230g = ??? ...you get my point.


    Overall though, I think that isn't a bad system. I used to feel like i was playing a stock market. Checking on the website to watch the price trends of an item over the course of a day, week, or month.

    Point is, no matter what is done there will always be people with millions in the bank, maxed gear and have huge sway in the market.
    The only reason crafting dies in other games is because the stuff you can make with it isn't as good as the stuff you get form grinding. So why bother wasting time crafting when you can go out and try your luck in dungeon crawling? That is really more so an issue with the devs of those games who chose unwittingly or otherwise, to give unequal opportunities to people who don't follow a certain business model of 'success'
     
  3. Snugglz

    Snugglz New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Auction Houses can burn in the fiery pits of hell!! Do you know what the greatest loss of players in SWG history was? No it wasnt the NGE, IT WAS IMMEDIATELY AFTER AUCTION HOUSES!! Those immersion breaking monstrosities have NO place in a sandbox mmo. Economies should be local and vast, prices should TRULY vary by supply and demand in DIFFERENT regions. Traders and caravans should be ever present, auction houses will ruin all the glorious work you've done already in the market. Please, please dont add them.
     
    Regnans likes this.
  4. Muppeteer

    Muppeteer Lore Writer Staff Member

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Global auction houses are not great when they are global, they do serve a purpose locally though. Towns and settlements should have their own economies, it usually feels better, adds more depth to trading and tends to fit lore better. Player to player trading is also nice but I wouldn't like to see player shops littering the world . Lineage 2 was a game where if wanted to sell you opened a shop and then players would spend and hour or more a day trying to get the best deal and avoid getting scammed while wading through a lagfest.

    I hope for towns to have trading posts/auction houses/exchanges blah blah, which offer goods for that zone. Would be great if they also had an area where jobs could be picked up to actually deliver/fetch goods to/from neighbouring trading posts as player jobs.

    As guilds will have the potential to build large settlements then guilds should be able to set up such trading posts and the game generate jobs for players to do.

    Would much rather see a town based auction system than a global one. It may however need a seperate system to allow players to at least advertise gear and special items for sale/wanted globally and have the ability to arrange to meet to trade player to player in a town etc
     
    Regnans likes this.
  5. Westman

    Westman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Agreed. It would be fun if your daily 'quest' was to safely deliver your goods to another town.

    My only request would be a ban on chat advertising. Nothing more annoying than that guy spamming an ad over and over.
     
    Regnans and Bloodknight like this.
  6. Muppeteer

    Muppeteer Lore Writer Staff Member

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Totally against chat trade, thinking of more of a newspaper small ads or ebay style of system
     
    Regnans and Bloodknight like this.
  7. Silverlock

    Silverlock New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Need to keep in mind what will work in an infinite sized world. I like the idea of a global AH with high fees and guild towns being able to build a local market with any fees being set by them and whether non guild members can access it.
     
    Regnans likes this.
  8. Slickassockz

    Slickassockz New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    in an infinite sized world global AH i think would be hella hard to maintain wouldnt it? if the world is infinite you can get lost in your own town of people until lets say u set up a trading market. the trading market can then be linked to other close trading markets and then you can share the trading market as a combined AH. Or you could have them connect to the Global AH as soon as they set up a trading market or a trading route. I just know from experience some AH really dont work especially if this will be 1 big server. From experience AH will be either flooded with overpriced items where the suppliers win and the customers lose becasue they cant afford the items unless they have a lot of money or even WORSE everything is underpriced in the market where anything can be bought super cheap at a global scale where ALL suppliers lose and customers "win". the only way I think you can off set this is by having separate AH that can be cheaper in some regions and more expensive in other regions making the economy always diverse and always evolving instead of either always inflating or deflating or stagnating

    I'd like to here some criticism on this idea please this is just a proposition
     
    Regnans likes this.
  9. benddd

    benddd New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    if you wanted to had a system like stated above with traders going from a to b trading goods it could be set as a npc job that could allow you to hire more npcs for protection, this would also give other players the option of playing the villain as many like to and attack and raid the convoys the more you spend on defence the less likely you are to lose your gear
     
    Regnans likes this.
  10. ApeX

    ApeX New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Perhaps you can have both. But not.

    The auction house could be an NPC organization that worked on the idea that once the town vendors had enough overstock they would auction the rest. This allows for fluid resource management adds dimension to crafting and adventuring and promotes trade.

    IE one town has a nearby wolf problem. Adventurers will come kill the wolves but now the town has all these wolf pelts. Solution: town auction. Players bid on the product. high bid wins and the player has low cost bulk goods to move to another town where they do not have a ton of wolves and need furs.

    Store fronts and contracts are the way to run the player made system, provided that exceptional items can be made by individuals. You find your desired product for purchase. you purchase said item. You take a business card. you use this to somehow have an easier time of returning. if it is a consumable item and you want a supply you can contract with the crafter. who will then arrange to deliver the product to your address.

    As far as it being an endless game. People may not choose to live 3 days out from another living person if it means he has to travel that far for supplies. And if they do they should be prepared to pay for it.
     
  11. PoshyDoshy

    PoshyDoshy New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    This sounds like a complicated issue that will require a lot of thought and planning to get right for the most amount of players possible. If crafting and trade are to be an important, rewarding part of the game world, then "stuff" has to have a high value. Either through rarity, time-sinks, or repeatable consumables. If "stuff" has high-value, some players will undoubtedly complain about the "grind" required to attain them.

    If "stuff" is of low value, the people who just want to "play" will be happy at the ease of attaining the items and consumables they need, but the crafters and traders will be dissatisfied with the AH/stores being "flooded" and the market being "dead". They will feel their "work" is unrewarded.


    Regarding the AH and store front question, I think a global AH wouldn't work based on what they said in their videos about players being able to travel from point A to point B to take advantage of regional price differences. A global AH would likely lead to a leveling of prices across the map pretty quickly.


    I don't know if a regional AH is workable, but it's something to consider if it's technically feasible and can be worked within the procedurally-generated framework. The engine would take into consideration producing "regions" as it makes the map on the fly. If there are to be capital cities or market towns, then these would be created for each region. Players would have an AH NPC within their base or visit the nearby capital/market town to access the regional market interface.

    Regarding the regions, each would have a particular set of characteristics, such as the biome. For example, if you live in snow region, snow "stuff" would generally be cheaper than average while "stuff" from other biomes like the temperate forest or desert would be generally more expensive than average. Same concept would apply to ore, monsters, or other regionally-differentiated "things" in the game world. This would encourage trade between the regions.

    This could be very dynamic. For example, there could be several snow regions bordering each other in a particular area, but each with differing ores, trees, monsters, and so forth. Some could be mountainous, while others are flatter or with water.


    Store fronts are another possibility, fitting the sandbox theme, but they will cause a lot of unhappiness for players who just want their "stuff" in a reasonable amount of time. They don't want to spend a lot of time traveling around for what they need or being frustrated when they can't find it at their closest store front.
     
  12. Ninate

    Ninate New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hey so here are my thoughts about AH and player Markets.

    I like the idea of Auctioning, the one that I found most... used i guess is the adequate word here, would be the one in Eudemons online. It gives you a certain amount of Auction slots, you place your items and list an asking price. People bid, people are able to see the price that the current bid is at and are able to decide if they want that item for that price. After a set amount of time the bid is over and it moves to the next item. (time preset the same for all items) If the item was not bought it sits in the Auction WH where it waits for you to place it for bid again or pick it up. If it was sold an item representing money (poker chips in Eudemons) is left in the item slot where the item was.

    As for player markets I have to highly suggest the housing market in mabinogi. Guilds control a separate map called a "housing area" its a suburb like map with lots of houses that are up for sale. Once people buy the houses they can sell things in the houses while online and offline. The part that I think should be implemented into this game is as fallows. Once selling stuff inside your house you are able to make flyers and store them inside your house as well, if you have flyers inside your house people can view your inventory from any housing board that's on the main maps of the game, Generally located in every town and some located in random areas you can search for any item based on price, seller, or name. Once you find an item you are looking for you can request a flyer. Once you have a flyer, you can use it to teleport yourself to the house selling the item. Once you use the flyer another item will appear in your inventory (a coupon as it is called in mabinogi) that will teleport you back to the same coordinates that you were at when you used the flyer.

    I think this type of player market will keep the market competitive while still making it relatively easy to buy and/or find the average price for an item if you are trying to buy it off of someone. (so people can scam other people saying an item is really expensive and its not).
     
  13. Laurence

    Laurence Member

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I think a game should have a hub of community and activity. One (or just a few) great auction houses would allow this, and those that are far from the hub can pay a couple of cents or learn a skill to send their item remotely.

    Carrier pigeons would be cool for small items and an (invincible) auto traveling trader - on a set path or at your guild - could deal with larger orders. Maybe this would cause issue with real estate shortage around such centres though?
     
  14. Muppeteer

    Muppeteer Lore Writer Staff Member

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I am totally for a mail and haulage system and am pretty sure these will be a thing in some form. Players will also have 'limited' teleport options so visiting the hub may be an option. I would expect there to be real time/financial advantages to visiting the auction house in person and for direct player trading.

    As of now I think there is only one npc hub confirmed, I can say there are at least one other possible location and the option for a third.
    I should be clear that, that is from the current lore draft not a dev aim. The game is proceedural so hubs would require a great deal of resources and art so I am writing the lore with this in mind.

    I hope to see trading posts set up by guilds or maybe some other form of player groups. My personal feeling for this game, and my direction with the lore, is that players drive much of the content. The story and npc elements drive the background story while players forge their own via emergent and meta gameplay.
     
  15. Laurence

    Laurence Member

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Sounds great. Any ideas on what'll draw players to particular areas though?
     
  16. Muppeteer

    Muppeteer Lore Writer Staff Member

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    28
    As far as the background lore and story goes, I think it will be npc/quest giver driven. The locations may or may not be visible withing the areas discovered by players so will need to be accessed by other means. Not sure how it will be done that is more the dev teams area. The story is currently set in a chronolgical order so some control of access may be required. I have an idea how main story zones can exist in the world while being unreachable by players through normal gameplay but they are just that, ideas.

    None of this is decided and nione of it is my call, rewrites are possible with so far to go in development
     
  17. RazorsEdge

    RazorsEdge New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    the best solution is actually to define a trade area ill elaborate

    say you have a player built city that is 500 blocks by 500 blocks

    now inside this city is of course many different shops and whoever owns/runs city can create a special building called a trade hub or something similar

    ok so what can the trade hub do

    it lists all goods within a certain area meaning all shops in a defined area of it as a multiplier of the the size of the city

    for example we could make the multiplier 40 so any shop within 20,000 blocks would have access to sell and buy goods at the trade hub

    players would set the prices and the economy would be driven by supply and demand this also encourages people to start up cities nearby as well as player interaction and pvp

    the trade hub will need some requirements so not just anyone can put one up
    1. you will need to own the land the trade hub is on
    2. you must own the city the trade hub is on to get tax revenue off of it
    3. the town must be at least 500 by 500 anything less then that really is not a bustling city
    4. additional requirements could be like a certain craft skills must be at some target level or higher
    5. trade hub should be something at a guild level so in that thought it needs massive materials to build it making it a massive grind or team effort to build it
     
  18. Faalin

    Faalin New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I think AH should be town based so the players set the prices for the economy. If something sells cheap in one town but is in high demand in another, you should be able to buy it cheap in that town and run and sell it in the other to make a profit. An all world AH will have the same price for an item and will no longer have a supply and demand.

    If there is an all world AH I think it should be if you place something on the AH in said town A and someone buys it in Town C. Whatever time it would take to run from town A to C is how long I should take to show up in your mail box. This is where shops could come into effect, if you know that product X is a hot seller in Town M but is a common supply in town H and takes 3 real days to travel in the AH. Then someone owning a shop in Town M could buy it off the AH and put it in their shop at a higher price, buying it from the shop will give you instant access to product X instead of waiting 3 days for it off the AH.

    This is just like the real world, a brick and mortar store will give it to you right away but if you buy it off the internet (AH) you have to wait for it to be delivered.
     

Share This Page